Hot topic on our kingdom list, was just wondering if anyone else was talking about it as well.
>From the President, Patrick Anderson:
Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the waterbearing
community to examine the various laws of states and countries related to
waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the SCA, Inc.
Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that while our
activity does not directly violate the food codes or health regulations
of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness, the SCA,
Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health care
professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree with this
assessment.
I was asked to examine the best way to both ensure a safe fighting
environment for our fighters, and to comply with the various state and
country laws. The relevant laws vary from state by state, county by
county and country by country. I determined that the best way to do this
would be to make “waterbearing” unofficial and unsanctioned by the SCA,
Inc. and proposed this change to the Board. The only other option would
be to regulate waterbearing, and to regulate it such that it follows the
various food safety codes of the various states and countries the SCA
participates in. This would be unwieldy, impractical and expensive for
the SCA to do. Further, it is likely that waterbearers would not be able
to continue to serve our fighters using any of the current methods of
waterbearing.
The proposal put before the membership for comment would stop
waterbearing by any SCA branch or other official group. The SCA would
not have an office of waterbearer at any level. Marshals would still be
permitted to allow waterbearers on the field, but any waterbearing must
not be done by any officially sanctioned or regulated groups of the SCA.
Households are welcome to provide water to fighters, as are unofficial
and unrecognized “guilds”. This does not bar groups from putting out the
"serve yourself water coolers" at events. (In my Kingdom they are
usually the big orange cylinders.)
The Board and Corporate officers understand that many people have spent
time waterbearing within the official framework, and now hope that you
continue to volunteer unofficially. This proposal has been brought to
enable fighters to continue to have a waterbearing service provided to
them, without the extremely strict governance that official waterbearing
will require.
The actual text of the proposed rule is below. This rule has not yet
been approved by the Board, and is being sent out for comment here. The
Directors request comments from the membership regarding this proposed
revision no later than October 1st, 2008. Please send them to:
Corpora Revision
SCA Inc.
Box 360789
Milpitas CA, 95036
email: comments at sca.org
Thank you for commenting.
Patrick Anderson
President, Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
Proposed language to be added to Corpora:
The activity of providing beverages to combatants and spectators at SCA
Combat activities is not regulated, warranted, organized, controlled, or
sanctioned by the SCA, Inc. or any affiliate or subsidiary entity. All
warrants, authorizations, or other formal recognition of this activity
are by publication of this change revoked. This document does not either
address or restrict such volunteer activity or the methods by which it
occurs.
--
Patrick Anderson
President
Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
president at sca.org
952-412-4112
>From the President, Patrick Anderson:
Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the waterbearing
community to examine the various laws of states and countries related to
waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the SCA, Inc.
Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that while our
activity does not directly violate the food codes or health regulations
of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness, the SCA,
Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health care
professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree with this
assessment.
I was asked to examine the best way to both ensure a safe fighting
environment for our fighters, and to comply with the various state and
country laws. The relevant laws vary from state by state, county by
county and country by country. I determined that the best way to do this
would be to make “waterbearing” unofficial and unsanctioned by the SCA,
Inc. and proposed this change to the Board. The only other option would
be to regulate waterbearing, and to regulate it such that it follows the
various food safety codes of the various states and countries the SCA
participates in. This would be unwieldy, impractical and expensive for
the SCA to do. Further, it is likely that waterbearers would not be able
to continue to serve our fighters using any of the current methods of
waterbearing.
The proposal put before the membership for comment would stop
waterbearing by any SCA branch or other official group. The SCA would
not have an office of waterbearer at any level. Marshals would still be
permitted to allow waterbearers on the field, but any waterbearing must
not be done by any officially sanctioned or regulated groups of the SCA.
Households are welcome to provide water to fighters, as are unofficial
and unrecognized “guilds”. This does not bar groups from putting out the
"serve yourself water coolers" at events. (In my Kingdom they are
usually the big orange cylinders.)
The Board and Corporate officers understand that many people have spent
time waterbearing within the official framework, and now hope that you
continue to volunteer unofficially. This proposal has been brought to
enable fighters to continue to have a waterbearing service provided to
them, without the extremely strict governance that official waterbearing
will require.
The actual text of the proposed rule is below. This rule has not yet
been approved by the Board, and is being sent out for comment here. The
Directors request comments from the membership regarding this proposed
revision no later than October 1st, 2008. Please send them to:
Corpora Revision
SCA Inc.
Box 360789
Milpitas CA, 95036
email: comments at sca.org
Thank you for commenting.
Patrick Anderson
President, Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
Proposed language to be added to Corpora:
The activity of providing beverages to combatants and spectators at SCA
Combat activities is not regulated, warranted, organized, controlled, or
sanctioned by the SCA, Inc. or any affiliate or subsidiary entity. All
warrants, authorizations, or other formal recognition of this activity
are by publication of this change revoked. This document does not either
address or restrict such volunteer activity or the methods by which it
occurs.
--
Patrick Anderson
President
Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
president at sca.org
952-412-4112
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 4:45 AMOur group always did its own waterbearing and we do not use the hoses we use squirt bottles or the fighters kneel and have water poured into their mouths. We noticed a lot less illnesses within the group following an event due to this practice. Events where we do not have our own waterbearers I keep a couple bike bottles with my gear and if it is really hot carry one on the field in a pouch (sometimes that is a pain).
The water bearers do a great service and I will have them pour water on my head and drink the sprayed water at events that have them but the drinking tubes are not worth the risk.
Is there no way to have it official and just changed the method of fluid delivery? I have seen many areas that use some form of squirt or spray device. Or is it the whole idea of distribution of food product that is the problem? -
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 9:55 PMOndraedan wrote: "The water bearers do a great service and I will have them pour water on my head and drink the sprayed water at events that have them but the drinking tubes are not worth the risk.
Is there no way to have it official and just changed the method of fluid delivery? I have seen many areas that use some form of squirt or spray device."
My reply: I have heard that some kingdoms (and even Pennsic!) still use "contact" fluid delivery systems ( i.e. tubes or straws that come in direct contact with the mouths of multiple persons) but didn't really believe it. I'm somewhat stunned to hear that it is true. Here in Ansteorra waterbearing has been _officially required_ to be "non-contact" (i.e. the drinking vessel does not ever come in direct contact with anyone's mouth) for at least six years, and before that it was already the norm, anyway, at least in the ten years I've been in the SCA. Official or not, yes, the method of fluid delivery should certainly be changed if it is not "non-contact!"
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 6:34 AMIt rather sounds like it's the food product safety issues that have them worried. Rightly so, it would as he said be one enormous pain in the arse to have to try to regulate waterbearing like a food service. Not to mention, there'd have to be some sort of licensing bought by who? Individual groups? Kingdoms? I can see how that would be a serious boondoggle.
I've personally never like the tubes. They're not exactly sanitary as you pointed out. Squirt bottles and large water coolers are the only way I ever drank at events I was fighting at. -
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 8:15 PMI think people need to tell the BOD where to put such worries and go about doing just exactly what they've been doing for the past 35 - plus years and ignore the lawsuit-worry mongers.
And if anyone's THAT concerned, let 'em carry their own water in whatever way they can figure out that won't get broken on the field.
BAH, humbug to lawsuits AND regular suits...
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Thu, June 19, 2008 - 10:58 AMThere is extensive discussion on the SCA Chirurgeon list. Check the archives.
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Thu, June 19, 2008 - 5:24 PMquite a bit of discussion on this on the West Kingdom Yahoogroup---SCAWest -
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Thu, June 19, 2008 - 8:13 PMPerhaps every six months or so, as a concerned member of the organization, I ought to write a letter to the BOD bringing some potemtial liability issue to their notice. For instance: Sirs, are you aware that over the past 38 years several individuals have been injured or at least momentarily incapacitated by near miss lightning strikes at Pennsic. This makes me wonder how common this sort of injury is when all of the other outdoor events are examined. What has the SCA done as an organization to prevent injuries and deaths due to such strikes or at least to mitigate possible lawsuits brought by injured parties and their families?
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Re: Anyone else talking about the Proposed Changes to Water Bearing by the BoD???
Thu, June 19, 2008 - 11:02 PMHi Brigit! Are you sure it was sca-west? looks like they just forwarded the announcements so far...
There a lot of activity on livejournals sca board, however:
community.livejournal.com/sca/
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