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Over the past year there has been a discussion on the Authenticity In The SCA Tribe that I figure ought to be moved here for more general consideration and discussion.
I attend a number of juried art shows. Perhaps someone in the SCA ought to jury merchants. For instance if you are a merchant selling turn shoes at an event, you could request a visit from the judges. They would peruse your shoes and provide them with a rating, either red, yellow, or green. Red would indicate that they accurately portray an SCA period pattern. Yellow would indicate that they accurately portray and SCA period pattern and are made of SCA period available materials. Green would indicate an SCA pattern, materials, and construction. Of course another ranking system could be devised such as bronze, silver, gold, or something of that sort. This would allow judged merchants to hang a sign out front indicating that they sell juried merchandise. The judges could provide a form letter listing the items which had been juried and the rating they received. What are other people's thoughts in this regard?
I attend a number of juried art shows. Perhaps someone in the SCA ought to jury merchants. For instance if you are a merchant selling turn shoes at an event, you could request a visit from the judges. They would peruse your shoes and provide them with a rating, either red, yellow, or green. Red would indicate that they accurately portray an SCA period pattern. Yellow would indicate that they accurately portray and SCA period pattern and are made of SCA period available materials. Green would indicate an SCA pattern, materials, and construction. Of course another ranking system could be devised such as bronze, silver, gold, or something of that sort. This would allow judged merchants to hang a sign out front indicating that they sell juried merchandise. The judges could provide a form letter listing the items which had been juried and the rating they received. What are other people's thoughts in this regard?
posted by:
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Cleveland
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Re: Juried Merchants
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 4:49 PMAs I stated on the other site, I'm all for it.
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Re: Juried Merchants
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 2:56 AM...and they could advertise in "Better Huts and Hovels" as "approved by the Certified Judging Panel as "Least Likely to Offend Authentistas"
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Re: Juried Merchants
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 7:24 AMCosts: Lots of arguments about who will be judging, who gets to decide who will be judging, merchants arguing about their rating, and wanting to appeal, and the word "lawsuit" will appear eventually, and the BoD will forbid it.
Benefits: None that I can see. If someone is that fussy about what they buy, they already know what they're looking at, or at least what questions to ask. If you don't like seeing merchants selling non-period stuff, don't buy from them.
Authenticity is a wonderful thing, but it can't be forced. I think one of the reasons the SCA has been so successful is that we accept whatever level of participation people are willing to put in.
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Re: Juried Merchants
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 3:01 PMi agree with Francis, I know that in the middle eastern realm, the people portraying it usually know more about their persona's then any judges. When you do get a new belly dancer involved with SCA who come on wearing non period wares, they quickly learn what is period and usually make an effort to get period. Also, large events with many merchants allow dancers to get more costuming for outside of SCA events as well. There are many benefits to having merchants open about selling period and non period items. Most do sell period and try to stay with it, otherwise they are not going to sell things unless there is an interest for it for outside of events. i think the middle eastern aspect of this topic best describe this. i know that when Im at events, I go looking for middle eastern stuff, I look in 2 ways-- things I can add to my period persona and things I can wear outside of SCA! And I love the fact that i can do this. -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 8:23 PMThe problem with re-enacting history is we don't know what IS period.
Ten years ago, no one would have thought that the Greeks had computers 2100 years ago.
news.nationalgeographic.com/news....html -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 8:29 PMAdmittedly, I saw Geeks at first... -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 5:22 PMSo Greek geeks are period? ;-)
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 7:04 AMJust because there is a juried merchants system doesn't mean that ALL merchants need be juried, just those that want to. It also wouldn't mean that a merchant that gets a "green" or whatever highest rank HAS to sell all period things, they could have a mix and have posted the items that qualified. Heck, with the mentality that a lot of folks have it may even become a point of pride NOT to qualify.
Second, not all people that are interested in authenticity know everything about all items. Shoes were mentioned as an example, so I'll go with that. If I'm going to try to do a period outfit, why not do the whole thing, including shoes? I know a bit about 14th C cotes, but I know nothing about shoes and I don't really have the time or interest in researching them exhaustively. Lucky for me there are plenty of people in this Society who do geek on shoes. Unlucky for me I don't know any. A juried system would allow me to go to a large event (such as Pennsic or Estrella) and not have to look at every single merchant and wonder if the shoes I'm looking at are authentic or not, or if they are an acceptable to me level of inauthenticity.
I agree that there would be issues with who are the judges, but I think it could be run like an A&S competition with documentation to take the subjectiveness out of it. The lawsuit comment made me laugh though. -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 8:34 AMI dare say none of it is authentic or period.
How was the fibre gathered and prepared, what kind of loom was it woven on, who made the loom using what tools, who made the tools out of what and how, what kind of tools gathered the wood for the loom, where and how was the metal mined that was used for the buckle, how was the cow raised, what was it fed, how was the animal slaughtered, how was the leather tanned?
Maybe these questions have already been deemed "too authentic" but in reality, there are NO authentic recreations. Only varied degrees of attempts to do so exist, and to start placing stamps of approval, or patches of red gold and green,(these patches being made of what by whom and how, I would like to know!) or judgements, can lead to more stratification and confusion and seperation in my mind.
If you care to know what to buy and who has "the most authentic", do the research yourself so that you know what you are looking at when you make your purchase.
Those are my 2 ducats! -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 9:51 AMi might like seeing such a thing
if i'm buying a present for a thirteenth century french monk friend,
this might just help me out a great deal...
especially if my fall back present is an inflatable sheep
:) -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 10:58 AM"especially if my fall back present is an inflatable sheep "
Do you have documentation for that? -
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Unsu...
Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 11:16 AM>"especially if my fall back present is an inflatable sheep "
>Do you have documentation for that?
A bagpipe is an inflatable sheep.
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 11:19 AMSo, you're saying that bagpipes were originally invented as sex toys? -
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Unsu...
Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 2:43 PMYou don't think bagpipes are sexy?
From the foggy morn, the wail of the pipes stirs the blood.
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Re: Juried Merchants
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 5:48 AM"Re: Juried Merchants
So, you're saying that bagpipes were originally invented as sex toys? "
What did you think they were? Musical Instruments? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Juried Merchants
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 9:57 AM"What did you think they were? Musical Instruments? "
Does anyone? -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Mon, April 20, 2009 - 11:42 AMi must say that the sound of the pipes causes me to stop in my tracks, and stirrs deep and powerful - exhilirating emotions -
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Re: Juried Merchants
Thu, April 23, 2009 - 11:27 PMi still think it would be an excellent idea, but you also might have some problems with judge opposing opinions and egos...
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Re: Juried Merchants
Fri, April 24, 2009 - 10:33 AMHere's an alternate proposal: Rather than have some official entity
to jury merchants, have a series of specialist guilds that would,
at a merchant's request, judge their wares in their area of
specialty only, so someone selling Viking shoes might request
the opinion of the Viking Guild and the Cobbler's Guild, and
if their wares are judged suitable, be permitted to display the
seal-of-approval of those guilds.
The seal-of-approval would be registed in a manner similar
to personal or group devices.
There may exist more than one guild judging the same things,
but with differing standards. People could decide to follow
the recocondation of the guild whose standards most closely
match their own.
I'm thinking of a smaller (perhaps only one person), more
informal series of groups doing the judging as opposed
to one monolithic, bureaucratic group that would eventually
become politicized.
