Just a thought...

Back in the old days... like around 1968 or whenever this thing ever started... there were no garb experts and everyone managed to have a LOT of fun, look just fine, and get along great with everyone... and all any of them were trying to do was to do was to look the part in whatever way they felt matched their idea of the Dream...

If the same sort of efforts as the founders are made by anyone today and fall short in the eyes of some critic... if garb that is close but not exact isn't good enough and results in some nasty comments... then the critic has corrupted the original ideas upon which the Dream was founded...

I like the idea that those that are so driven to research and create increasingly more accurate garb as a challenge to themselves can do so. More power to them and I will enjoy their efforts the next time I see them wearing it. And when they answer questions and help me to improve AT MY BEHEST, then God bless them all...

But what scares me is when the Society as a whole, or certain kingdoms (such as my own), or groups within a kingdom begin to "emphasize" the need for ever increasing authenticity. Some call it "raising the bar" in certain circles. And it is fine if they want to raise the bar for themselves. But it doesn't take much for the "encouragement" to become "widespread involuntary conformity" to someone else's standards and quickly ruin the Dream for those not inclined to "significant" amounts of authenticity.

Everyone should make an attempt... most do... and only those that don't should ever be met by criticism...

Atlantia is getting a little carried away with what is allowed on the tourney field and who these rule do and don't apply to but that is a subject for another thread.

I agree with you on the lights at feast but, I believe it has more to do with the rules of the site being used and fire codes. Some buildings you can not have lamps and candles and there are rules governing the amount of lighting required when a space is in use. Or, it could just be because no one thought to kill the lights.

My favorite response to someone being a prick about periodness is to look confused and ask them what they are talking about...in Middle Dutch.

VERY good point! I think I will make sure to do that...not that I ever SAY it's 'authentic' when it is not..but perhaps making mention of the fact would curb any possible outside comments and criticism.

Thanks for the advice! :)

There is NEVER an excuse for snippy remarks or behavior in a group that trumpets "honor, chivilary...."yada, yada---NEVER.
>>>>>

let me relate an experiance to you guys from this weekend...

there is a whole tangent about all the crap i'm going through trying to remodel my house. most isnt important other than the fact that while i have a three bedroom house i currently have use of ONE room. everything----tv, computer, mattress, clothes.....are all shoved into one room. everything else i own is packed up and scattered between multiple storage places.

we decided to go to an event this weekend. i go through the tote of garb i have at the house and am able to come up with a middle eastern outfit to wear to the event. on the way out of town we stop at my BF fathers house and pick up a tote of garb that we washed over there from pennsic. i have no idea where his garb is but i know that in the tote there is at least one t-tunic and a black pair of my cotton harem pants.

we get to the event and all is well i run around in the middle eastern, he runs around in his tunic and all is well with the world.

the problem arises when in the evening i start getting hot (this coat is really heavy and is more of a winter weight). i go digging through the tote looking for an alternative outfit. i thought there was a white chamise in there but its not. ok, so what do i do? i can sit there, roasting, and being miserable. i can take the coat off, but to say the shirt under it is shear would be a rather impressive understatement. or i can change. i look around at the masks available for the dance later on, the foam crowns (which people looked like they were haveing quite a bit of fun with), and the wide range of garb folks are walking around in.

in the tote i do have my green skirt, corset, and choli. i figured: eh, its fancy, its the best alternative i have here...........so i change into that.

as a group of us are hanging out upstairs waiting for feast to finish and the danceing to start, a lady is kind enough to walk up a flight of stairs, tap me on the shoulder, and ask me "my lady, are you aware you are wearing your underwear on the outside?"

i just blinked at her and said "yes"

i'm going to go out on a limb here and vote she could tell this was going to go to a bad place because she did walk off rather fast.

i'm sorry, i drove 4 1/2 hours to go to said event. i didnt really have the ability to go home and try to hunt down something better. i was kind enough NOT to pick apart the mistakes in her clothing. i do have to laugh. of the entire outfit the corset was probably the closest thing to being period, and it was the one thing that she focused on.

with as long as i've been playing in the sca i still was considering saying screw it and calling it a night, but i was enjoying the company of the people we were hanging out with and well i really wanted to dance.....if this would have been my first event i honestly would have gone home and concidered never going back.

i am all for waiting for folks to ask about garb before offering suggestions, info, etc on theirs. there was a lady at the dance who had an awsome black and white dress on. she was extreamly nice and let me get photos of the front and back, while also giveing me info on how she made it. this was nice because i went through what i already had and what i was thinking of doing to go about makeing a similar dress, but there was no snarkyness involved in that discussion...i was however able to get info i needed for makeing the dress.

So...here is me ASKING for advice. Perhaps I should be starting another thread but being that I have some key folks here writing...I like to sew trim on the arms of my T-Tunic dresses. What is the 'authentic' way to do this? I mean, if you are not sewing it on to cover a seam, like how far above the wrist-line should it be? I am asking because someone pointed out to me that where my trim was placed was not quite period. I admit that I have SO much to learn. Anyone have any insight to this as I have not the slightest idea and want to do things right!!!...?

Thank you in advance..and to all of those who have offered their input on this subject! :)

Brithwen

This highlights the big difference between the SCA and the stricter historical re-creationalists. If you are being truly "period" you can only do things as we have proof of them having been done and using only materials that we have absolute specific proof that was used. It's almost impossible today to use ingredients that are identicle to what was used in period because pollution and radiation are present in allmost all of our contemporary ingredients that wouldn't have existed back then. All things need to be documented by no less than two different primary sources.
The SCA was never intended to go that route and left those avenues to the re-enactment scholars. We allow for a certain amount of speculation and creativity. In other words, using materials that are very similar to the original and using practices that are akin to the period practices and also allowing a certain amount of speculation as to what very possibly could have been. The end result may be indistinguishable from an actual "period" item to the average person's eye, but there may be a certain amount of speculation. If the participant documents the differences and offers an explanation as to how and why they speculated that something may have been done this way, then I would say that
it is a very legitimate entry into almost any of the A&S categories.
I certainly hope that the SCA isn't making narrower restrictions about creativity, because that will defeat the whole purpose of the SCA.

It seems to me that what is getting lost in Society as a whole these days is the fact that not everyone is in the SCA to play exactly like everyone else or even to participate in the same activities. Everyone has different goals, especially when it comes to A&S activities and even when it comes to garb. And yet there seems to be this widespread undertone that absolutely everyone should be on the path to "garbic nirvana", where we continuously exert ourselves in an endless effort to research and make and wear ever increasingly period garb with our goal to arrive at the point where every outfit we wear for every minute of every event is perfectly authentic and documented.

Personally, I am on the pathway to "garbic acceptablility", where the acceptability is to me and a few friends whose opinions I respect. I want to have decent looking, period-like, comfortable, functional garb. I will continue to press to improve my stuff at my own rate until I reach where I want to be. And then my progress will very likely STOP. And yet it seems like the "stopping" will cause certain people to gasp, to question my reasons for being a member, and so on...

If I was to guess at the reasons for the decline in college age members, I would say that it is the result of this shift in emphasis from having fun to research and authenticity. I think that some of the well established members have their fun through their research and efforts at authenticity (and good for them for enjoying that) but have lost sight of the fact that not everyone shares their goals and interests. Maybe it is the fact that those in decision making positions within the organization run in circles with others of like interests (laurels and such) and so all of them are collectively happy, sharing like interests, and forget that others do not.

Maybe it just bears repeating on a regular basis that...

We are playing a game of MAKE-BELIEVE!

Just like our children, except with more expensive and more authentic props, we are playing a game of make-believe. And lest it get lost in the wording...

We are PLAYING.

So play nice or I'll feed you to a Tuchux!

With a grin,
Pewter

"He said ring belts aren't period, and wearing them marks me as a newb"

Funny that, I know 3 knights that have white ring belts. I don't think they are newbs but, I could be wrong.

<< straw wreath (for the archers of course). >>

"With semi-unofficial war points for wreath hits and additional points for self-fletched arrows :)"

More points for using period or non-period arrows?

It just seems fitting to ding them non-period arrows... *grin*

I will cheerfully bore anyone who wishes to read further in this post with documentary evidence:

How much more respectable can you get? Thirteenth century Buddhist nun Eshinni. Look for the skinny ends of her front tied obi falling inside the circle formed by her rosary:
www.terakoya.com/hongwanji...shinni.jpg

Young people playing hanetsuki (a game sort of like badminton) from a 16th century screen. Several girls are shown with skinny front tied obi.
www.tnm.go.jp/gallery/sea...C0022467.jpg

Early 17th c. screen shows figures with both front tied and back tied obi:
www.tnm.go.jp/en/servlet/Con
www.tnm.go.jp/en/servlet/Con

17th century painting of a "red light district." Note the caged window of the brothel. Back tied obi on the floozy sitting on the porch making time with the samurai.
www.tnm.go.jp/en/servlet/Con

18th century painting of ladies with back-tied obi. Having a knot that big in front has now become impractical.
www.tnm.go.jp/en/servlet/Con

18th century woodblock print of "beauties." THIS is the classic front tied obi that one sees on women from the pleasure quarters during this period.
www.tnm.go.jp/en/servlet/Con

19th century woodblock of an "oiran" or high ranking courtesan with distinctive humongous front tied obi and pincushion coiffure. www.artgallery.sbc.edu/ukiyoe...18.jpeg